Why Digital Forensics is Essential For Your Practice

March 17, 2021
By: Matthew Laurin

Lars Daniel

Lars Daniel is a Practice Leader of Digital Forensics at Envista Forensics. Lars is a qualified expert witness in the field of digital forensics and has testified in both state and federal courts. He is an EnCase Certified Examiner (EnCE), a Cellebrite Certified Logical Operator (CCLO), and provides Continuing Legal Education (CLE) classes for attorneys nationwide. Outside of the courtroom, Lars is the Co-Author of the book Digital Forensics for Legal Professionals: Understanding Digital Evidence from the Warrant to the Courtroom.

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Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:

  • Who is Lars Daniel?
  • Lars explains digital forensics.
  • The story of how mobile phone forensics helped a company figure out how their employee lied about a kidnapping.
  • What goes into verifying text message evidence?
  • The role of the digital forensics expert in a criminal case.
  • What to do when you get a phone from a client for evidence.
  • How to collect and preserve potential evidence on social media.
  • The devices you should be asking for when you need digital proof to support your case.

In this episode…

In today’s digital world, we’re constantly leaving behind a trail of digital footprints. As lawyers, some of those footprints could come in handy as evidence in any legal practice. But the problem is that there aren’t many lawyers who understand digital forensics—or how to deploy it to their advantage.

Take a listen to this episode of the Esq.Marketing Podcast with Matthew Laurin and Lars Daniel, Practice Leader of Digital Forensics at Envista Forensics. Lars breaks down the concept, process, and essence of digital forensics for lawyers. He sheds light on what to do when you need evidence from a phone, how to source proof from social media, the devices you need when you’re looking for digital evidence, and more.

Resources Mentioned in this episode

Books Mentioned: 

Sponsor for this episode…

This episode is brought to you by Esq Marketing, your firm’s strategic search marketing partner. Esq Marketing helps law firms generate more clients and cases using search marketing and helping them land on the first page on Google so that clients can find you right away. We help companies ranging from those with 10 or less members to those with over 50 in their team, essentially creating a marketing department for them to help them reach potential clients with ease.

Episode Transcript

Intro  0:04

You’re listening to the Esq.Marketing Podcast hosted by Matthew Laurin, President of Esq.Marketing, where he features successful solo and SMB law firms from all over the United States. Now, let’s get started with the show.

Matthew Laurin  0:22

Hey, I’m Matthew Laurin, President of Esq.Marketing and you’re listening to the Esq.Marketing Podcast where I feature successful solo and SMB law firms from all over the United States. This episode is brought to you by Esq.Marketing we help law firms generate more clients in cases using search marketing. And today we have a special guest not a lawyer but Lars Daniel Lars is a practice leader of digital forensics at Envista Forensics. Lars is a qualified expert witness in the field of digital forensics and has testified in both state and federal courts. Lars is also the Co-author of the book, Digital Forensics for Legal Professionals: Understanding Digital Evidence from the Warrant to the Courtroom, published by and I’m probably gonna get this wrong since syngress

Lars Daniel  1:05

Syngress yeah it is an imprint of Elsevier. So you’re you’re close

Matthew Laurin  1:08

Imprint of Elsevier publishing and Lars, thank you for being with us on the show today.

Lars Daniel  1:13

Oh, my pleasure. Absolutely.

Matthew Laurin  1:14

I’ve heard of Elsevier publishing, but I’ve never heard of that imprint before. So I’ve heard a lot about you, our director

Lars Daniel  1:20

that’s where they that’s where they put all the nerd books so the the Syngress is all the digital forensics and stuff like that. That’s what you know, Elsevier doesn’t want that mixed in with the rest of their brands. And they push it over to singers. I think I just joking. But

Matthew Laurin  1:32

yeah, I don’t think he’d give you enough self enough. kind of sounds like super interesting stuff. And I, I’ve read some of your some of your stories passed on to me by your your acquaintance. And yeah, interesting stuff. So I’ll just jump right in here. For our listeners who are not familiar in the field of digital forensics. Can you tell us what it encompasses?

Lars Daniel  1:51

Yeah, absolutely. So digital forensics is is the umbrella terminology we use for sub disciplines inside of it. So inside of digital forensics, you would have things like computer forensics, cell phone, forensics, cell phone location analysis, and other types of location forensics, GPS, forensics, and an in vehicle infotainment, and telematics systems. So in other words, if they get to electricity and stores data in some fashion, it’s likely that it falls within the realm of digital forensics, as far as the experts who would examine it, to find forensic artifacts on that, and then prepare that as a report and then could testify to it.

Matthew Laurin  2:31

So in some of those shows, like CSI shows like that you always see the digital forensic people. That’s that’s you right? Behind the Scenes doing this? Sort of,

Lars Daniel  2:40

it’s sort of us yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s a lot, it’s a lot more fun. As far as the colors in the rooms, and the, and how fast it goes is nice. I remember one time filming for a new station, and they were talking about a case and they came in, they brought they brought all these extra lights because they came into our offices and it looks just like a normal office, right? Or, you know, in some of our offices where you sit down, it looks like a like a law firm more than it looks like a like a lab. So they turn all these red and blue lights and they turn all the lights off to make it look like CSI so they can get their shots for the news it was was pretty entertaining.

That’s awesome. So Lars, how did you get started in the world of digital forensics?

Yeah, that’s a that’s that’s a good question. So by accident, that’s how I got started in it never intended to do this. So growing up, my father is a serial entrepreneur had all kinds of different companies from he worked in building automation controls to fiber optics. Then he owned it companies and computer stores. And I worked for him for a long time. I went to college, went to graduate school, trying to get a degree in philosophy of all things. And he needed help, because he was doing so well. So I came back and worked for nothing for a while. And then eight years later, in Vista, Francis came along and acquired our company. And here we are to date. And I’ve been doing this for a total of 12 years now. So it was a family business. We wrote some books, got a bunch of certifications and did the other stuff normally you would do to market a business and grow it. And then we were purchased. But that’s the that’s the short of it.

Matthew Laurin  4:11

That’s an amazing story. Really cool that you get to work for your father.

Lars Daniel  4:14

Now he still works. We still works with us too. So that’s great. He’s a senior principal consultant here. He’s testified over 70 times the state and federal courts. So a bit of a bit of a legend in the digital forensics community.

Matthew Laurin  4:27

Very cool. So I’ve heard a couple of stories about your work that are pretty interesting. One about kidnappers bottle service and mobile phone forensics. Are you able to tell me that one?

Lars Daniel  4:40

Yeah, sure. We can do that one. So this is a case that one of our examiner’s dead and it’s a it’s pretty interesting you don’t think about location forensics always been utilized in a fashion like this or if you do you think murder cases or sex crimes right? Do they have the bracelet on to the go somewhere they shouldn’t. But this this all, it all comes together and and is utilized in civilization. too and this is one such example of that. And in this case, now we get a call from the attorney, right. And there’s concern that an employee has jeopardized the company’s reputation. That’s that’s where it starts off. That’s what we think the issue is. Yeah, it’s an interesting story. The employee told us this is what happened after a business brought us onto examined. So what he was saying is that he was on an international business trip, right. He’d been working hard all week, and he wanted to go let off some steam. So went to explore the city, pretty normal stuff like that. The next morning, he boarded the plane and returns to the United States. But a week passes, and when it comes back to counting notices that that there’s five plus figures racked up on his company credit card, right, so a lot of money has been spent. And it’s all accrued on like a single night. So it all happens in the span of very short period of time. Now, remember, and note that this employee says nothing to his boss, he hasn’t mentioned anything at all about these charges. So when he is questioned, finally, by accounting and so forth, he recounts his experience like something of an action movie where he is kidnapped for over six hours and held in a room, bays locked up, you know, he’s, and he’s tied up and can’t do anything. Obviously, there’s some suspicion from the company, really, in the main reason, their suspicion is that he claims the card was just compromised, and not stolen, because it’s still in the employees possession, which is interesting. Anyway, if you kidnap somebody want to just pick the card to write. And second, he never reported this to international authorities or to anyone stateside when he got back. So it’s just out of nowhere, you have this story. So they asked us to come come look at the iPhone and so forth. Look at his location data. And when we look at this phone, we see a few things. First of all, we noticed that there were applications deleted on the phone, contemporaneous around the time when he’s allegedly kidnapped. And as we look at this data, we find a few things one, the Apple Watch data that is recorded on the Apple Watch where you’re walking around and going upstairs and stuff like that that’s dumped through the phone, and it’s saved in the health application. So we can see where you’re walking the distance and for going upstairs, direction changes, location information is all on the phone that we can get through forensic analysis. And there’s miles walked in this period of time where he is supposed to be tied up, bro. That’s the Yeah, that’s the first issue. The other application that was deleted that we recovered was the translator application. And we recovered a deleted text message. And this deleted text message goes something like this. Last night was amazing. And I can’t believe you can’t find a man someday someone will find you and it will end up perfectly. You’re so beautiful. You’re perfect by American standards. Words can’t express how much I miss you, you know, normal, normal stuff like that. Oh, that sounds. So yeah, we found all this out. And what happened is that message was sent while he’s boarding a plane to come back to the United States to so as you as you can tell, it was a good outcome for the company in this situation just because yeah, he did go out and have some extra curricular activities one night and and try to come up with a nice fanciful story, but it certainly is entertaining.

Matthew Laurin  8:25

Very incriminating. Yeah, geez. Um, so was that was that case ever in court? Or was that like a private company that hired you to figure that out?

Lars Daniel  8:35

Yeah. So I can’t share everything about that. But that was a private company that that retained us for that group counsel to examine that one. So yeah, that would never went to court.

Matthew Laurin  8:44

Okay. Gotcha, gotcha. So we a lot of our audience, our personal injury attorneys, Divorce Attorneys. Do you have any interesting stories around that? Especially around maybe like the divorce or family law one?

Lars Daniel  9:00

Yeah, sure. You know, one of the biggest issues we see in family law in particular, I this really goes across the board. But it’s it really is a big issue. And Family Law is verifying text message evidence. And here’s what I say about that. So when I’m when I’m doing a forensic examination, or forensic expert is we have tools, where we can make a forensic copy called a forensic acquisition. And once we have that copy, we can run an algorithm against it. That gives us a mathematical number, a digital fingerprint, right? This is the digital DNA. So I have a perfect snapshot in time of how that data exists. I can validate it, I can say it’s real, all that other stuff. What you see most, most often in court as evidence, especially Family Law, these other areas of text messages are pictures of text messages, right? You take a screenshot or a picture of a message someone sent you, and then you give that to your attorney or you supply that discovery. That’s the problem. And the problem is is that that constitutes what’s called a manual examination. Which I could talk about in a second. But here’s the real issue. You can fake those messages. You can spoof messages you can fake message, make them look absolutely real. I’ve testified a number of times about this. I’ve written about this written affidavits about this, we’ve discovered this is actually faked messages multiple times in cases. It’s a real, it’s a real problem today.

Matthew Laurin  10:20

That’s crazy. How did How do people do that? Is it?

Lars Daniel  10:25

Yeah, you can literally go to a website, you can search for fake, make a fake text message. And it will bring you up to websites where you can put in who it’s from, who it’s to what you want the message to, say, your battery life, the carrier of the number of bars of service that you have, and then you hit Done. And you can download a picture that looks exactly like a real screenshot. You can set the time. That’s one method. There’s a whole lot of other methods. I have a little guy that have I give out on how that’s done. But there’s there’s many methods and they don’t require a high level of technical sophistication, a normal person can do this.

Matthew Laurin  10:57

That’s so crazy. So how, how do you figure out what’s real and what’s not? Is it possible?

Lars Daniel  11:03

Yeah, it is possible one, if that is supplied in discovery, then you have to go do an examination of the phone that came from, or it was sent to preferably the sending phones the best source because that evidence should exist there. And also, if it’s a particular type of message, a normal text message was just SMS or short message service. So if you have an iPhone, and it comes across as green, that’s an SMS. If it’s blue, that’s iMessage, for example, there are different types of messaging. But those will show up in in call detail reports are kind of like a super phone bill, you can subpoena that we have language for that, we also give out if anyone needs it. And in that, it will show a transaction of a text message being sent one direction or the other. That would be one way you would determine it, because if it exists in the call detail reports, it was really something was really sent at that date and time you correlate it back to date on the phone. In other words, much more holistically. Now to save the headache. If an attorney who’s listening to this, one of your attorneys who handles Injury Law just needs a text message and doesn’t want to call an expert, here’s what you do. You take that phone out, he set it on a table. And make sure you put it in airplane mode and stuff like that, because that’s just you should. So it’s not getting any new data while you’re doing your exam, doing your pictures, and take pictures with a separate camera of that phone of the message or whatever you want to document. And the entire time while you’re taking those pictures. You have the video camera over your shoulder recording the whole process from the time you powered on your examination powered off and put the phone away. That’s your verification that you didn’t change anything or create anything or delete anything. And that’s exactly what we would do we just have fancier tools to do it.

Matthew Laurin  12:43

Interesting. Very interesting. That’s a great tip. Are there any criminal law cases? You’ve worked on that? Where there’s some interesting stories?

Lars Daniel  12:52

Yeah, there’s some interesting stories, some interesting cases. I had the opportunity to work on the Dylann Roof case as the Charleston church shooter. You remember that for the defense? Yeah, that was a that was a fascinating case to work on. I had the opportunity to work on the James Holmes theater shooter case, if you remember that one as well. That was the Batman movie on Colorado?

Matthew Laurin  13:13

Yes, that was in Colorado. Tell me about that one. Because that made a lot of headlines, the Colorado shooting?

Lars Daniel  13:18

Yeah, I don’t know how much I can tell about that. One. We did work on it. The parts that we did on that one, mostly, and this is what happens in a lot of criminal case. And I give the general outline of what we did is that there’s not a question, if there’s going to be some kind of big smoking gun found on a computer or a phone in a case like that. We’re not out there trying to find some evidence of innocence and the attorneys not either, right. It doesn’t make any sense for the theory of the case that they have for the actual events that occurred,

Matthew Laurin  13:47

right. Because they already know who did Yeah,

Lars Daniel  13:49

yeah. I mean, it’s the theater shooting, they get them on the scene. So but here’s what you we do do right. We can pull a lot of information from the computers in the phones that are relevant to mental health experts and other people who analyze that data and can utilize it to make their opinions. So we’re an intermediary in a case like that a lot of times similar to the Dylann Roof case. We did other stuff in that one too. But we’re pulling information related to what are they interested in? What are they searching for? What are they reading, and we’re putting it into a format that can be utilized by an expert who’s not a tech person, right? So we get those documents we make them like a real document so that your your mental health expert could could review that for their expert reports. So we’re pulling that information is you know, if you look into somebody’s computer, you look into their phone, a lot of times you’re kind of looking into their brain these days.

Matthew Laurin  14:42

How far back do you go on something like that?

Lars Daniel  14:46

In a case like that you go back as far as you can, like as much data is there. How far back we go really is going to depend on the type of case and what what you’re looking for if we’re looking for something related to a lifestyle analysis, right? Does this doctor go out every weekend? And as you know, it’s hookers and cocaine every weekend? Are they doing that? And we can show that through location activity and other stuff. And then there’s a malpractice issue. that’s relevant right? A long time. If this is an accident of vehicle accident case, we only may only care about distraction on the cell phone, you know, were they looking at a movie where they attach it to Bluetooth? Where they type in a message? Is it in the drafts or whatever? Because we can see all that usually down to the second what’s occurring on a phone with an accident. So what do we need 30 minutes before and after the accident? That’s usually what parties would agree to on both sides anyway, so it’s not a big span of data that we’re looking at.

Matthew Laurin  15:41

In the personal injury realm, is there any cases that stick out to you there that have been really memorable in some way?

Lars Daniel  15:51

Yeah, there definitely are. Really, what’s what’s fascinating, and what’s really useful today is just the amount of information available on social media, and on phones. And what a lot of times people forget, is that even though someone may delete, say, their Facebook profile, and it’s gone then right, it’s, it’s gone. But those fragments, or that data, or a lot of really pertinent data related to that Facebook profile still exists on other data repositories. And what I mean by that is that they’re gonna exist on the computers on your phones. And even if you’ve deleted the profile, there’s fragments and pieces of all that data in your storage areas on those devices that can be recovered. So a couple real quick and these two cases we were we worked we do plaintiff defense for independent experts who work for whoever decides to hire us. But these were both for the defense and one a gentleman was had a traumatic brain injury and was able to see lights, loud sounds and stuff, examine his phone and recover deleted videos and the rest, including geolocation data with Vegas that you know, live and live in the dream from the videos, lots of bright lights and sounds and, and other and other fun activities. Yeah. And the second one was a very similar story, the same thing can’t work traumatic brain injury, but there are a Disney World and there’s roller coasters and, and the whole thing. So that type of information is pretty common in those types of cases.

Matthew Laurin  17:12

Is there any case where that you’ve had that it was just really difficult to piece together a story or a timeline of what happened? Because the person was kind of aware of they’re being tracked?

Lars Daniel  17:22

Yeah, absolutely. One of the most complicated cases that I’ve had that I can talk about was a gentleman who worked inside an IT department at a company. And he left the company very disgruntled, but he also stole a bunch of intellectual property from that company, to the point that federal marshals ended up getting involved on track this guy down because he was running. While he was doing that, he somehow managed to get back in to the business and attached to it, like walked right in and hook the USB stick and started sucking down data and putting stuff on their servers you don’t want on there. But what actually happened at the end of the day, and because the marshals ended up getting him, but um, we recovered these artifacts from his system, showing that these messages back and forth these on Craigslist, trying to get people to pay them cash to sign them to sign an affidavit for a name change. So he’s trying to get a name change and a new passport to get out of the country. So he’s working on getting new documents with this intellectual property, this data, probably to go try to sell it. I don’t know. So pretty crazy, weird scenario.

Matthew Laurin  18:32

Very weird, and super jazzy.

Lars Daniel  18:34

And this this is at a location with like arm security that that escorts you around the building. So how we got in I don’t know that this isn’t a slouch, like normal office, this is a pretty serious IP that this company had.

Matthew Laurin  18:47

Yeah, an attorney gets a phone from a client, what should they do?

Lars Daniel  18:50

Yeah, if you got a phone from a client, the best thing to do, if you’re, if we’ll talk about it from two ways, one, you’re going to get an expert probably into you’re not okay. Either way, you receive that phone into your custody. And you want to, you want to make sure it’s not connected to any, any networks. Okay? If it’s connected to a network, two things can happen. When I say a network, I mean a Wi Fi network or wireless network. or, excuse me, a cellular network, obviously, the cellular network, we understand you put it in airplane mode that turns it off. However Wi Fi can be on even though sailors off because you can connect to Wi Fi on a plane, right? So that allows it to send and receive data, make calls everything else, we don’t want anything new getting in, we want to keep that data exactly as it is as one is taken into your possession. So make sure it’s in airplane mode. And that wireless connectivity is turned off. Okay, that’s step one. Step two, the best thing you can do is power it off. Just turn it off and store it away. Until such a time where you need to get something from that phone or you’re going to provide it to an expert. If you’re going to provide it to an expert. You simply give it to the expert and they take care of it from there, okay? If you’re going to try to capture something from it yourself. What you would do is that just like we mentioned, the only option available to you is a manual examination. That’s the camera and the video camera. That’s all you got, you don’t have any tools that you can utilize that are forensically sound, unless you go by them. So really, that’s what you’re left with. So what I suggest is a store, like I just mentioned, and then proceed to do your manual examination, capture whatever data that you need. And then once again, when you’re finished, leave it with airplane mode on. And so the wireless connectivity is all the connectivities are off, powered off, put it back into secure storage.

Matthew Laurin  20:41

Those are great tips. What about social media profiles? What if a social media profile attorney knows that that’s going to be a crucial piece of evidence to a case? in their case, what should they do? What should they tell their clients to be doing? If they know they need to save data there?

Lars Daniel  20:55

Sure, absolutely. So whether it’s instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook, most of these applications have an ability where you can download your own data. So for example, with Facebook, you go to the top right, and there’s a little upside down arrow, you click on that, you go to settings, and then the settings, you can go through some different steps to download your own data. And you can find a guy for that right on Facebook, on how to get that information. And it will package everything that you have into like a little web page and send it to you. That’s the best way to collect your own data. Now, if you have a scenario where you’re trying to gather information about a person who’s not your client, you can’t do that, right, you can’t download someone else’s information like that, the best thing to do is to utilize a tool, similar like we have, we have some some some applications, forensic applications that allow us to point this tool at a social media account for a person are all their social media accounts. And what it does is every time something new is created by that person, it sucks it down into a in a forensic file, and it mathematically hashes each and every individual entry. So there’s no way you can say that this is fake, it’s absolutely real. It’s time stamped, and it’s automatic. So we set it and forget it, we walk away. And it’s just pulling down all that data is they generate new stuff, so you don’t have to be checking to in the morning or whatever to see if they you know, they posted about riding their bicycle again, we’re supposed to have a broke leg or whatever. That’s that’s what that’s really valuable for.

Matthew Laurin  22:24

Wow, that’s crazy. I don’t, I’m gonna think about this every time I’m using my social media accounts, or my phone. Right? So is there is there any instance where people aren’t being tracked really today in today’s world, if they’re using cell phones, if they’re using social media? computers?

Lars Daniel  22:40

Yeah, that’s a that’s a big question. No, not really, I mean, if you have a modern smartphone, and this is the reality, with all technology, you have a spectrum on one side, you have security. And the other side you have convenience, the more secure you make anything, the less convenient it is, therefore, the less fun, everything that’s fun on your phone requires access to your data. And it requires access to your location data. In particular, that’s how I can tell you, if the gym is really busy right now. Maybe you want to go later, or it can give you estimates on how long it’ll take to get to a location as it needs your location data. So here’s the issue, location data is on your phone, yes, you’re absolutely being tracked by applications, we can pull that from the phone. But even if you have location services turned off, you’re still being tracked by the cellular system. And that can be gathered via your your call detail reports, you get those via subpoena. They’re like a super phone bill. And you can get that you can track where they were based upon the towers they connected to historically. Other than that there’s also Google location services, which is, is tracking your location or Google location history. So there’s, there’s more ways than we could we have time in this podcast to explain how devices are tracking us. We’re not even into wearable technology yet, or there’s medical ingestibles that you certain yourself that are doing all this other stuff to see if you took your medicine. I mean, the the amount that is tracked about people is is only increasing.

Matthew Laurin  24:05

That’s something that came just came to mind. So if if an attorney is got a client where maybe that all of this technology is going to be useful in the case, what types of things besides their phone? Should they be asking them to? Hand over? Maybe they can document?

Lars Daniel  24:20

Yeah, absolutely. And it really is going to depend on the type of case. Obviously laptop computers, phones, those are primarily what you need. Every now and then we’ll want the wearable device. So the watch or the garment or whatever, if it’s wearable technology, that’s potentially of interest. But here’s the main thing to remember. Your wearable technology like your your smartwatches Yeah, we can get some stuff from that. But it’s pretty small compared to wait and get from the phone. These watches and other devices, heart rate monitors cranks that go on shafts of bikes that measure wattage, whatever, they’re really fancy sensors. And what a fancy sensor does, like in today’s world with the Internet of Things is that it collects data And then it can transmit that data. But it has a really small capacity to transmit data, and has a small capacity to store data and to process data. So what does that mean? Your watch may gather a bunch of stuff, but it dumps it to your phone. So we can get that from the phone, or we can get that from the computer. Or you can get that from the online account associated with your Garmin, Phoenix 5x, watch or your or your Apple Watch.

Matthew Laurin  25:25

So they may not be as crucial because it’s all going to the phone anyway.

Lars Daniel  25:30

Yeah, it’s not as crucial. I still get it, or I still maintain it just in case. The interesting thing about digital forensics is that unlike other disciplines, like DNA or fingerprints, while the means you utilize to examine that evidence may change, the evidence itself stays the same, and digital forensics, the tools to examine stuff, and the evidence itself is changing constantly, right? Because technology is moving at a breakneck pace. And we’re right behind him keeping up trying to be able to exploit that technology to get data from it. So while that watch may not be of interest today, it could very much be of interest six months from now, when some new technique is developed to get or extract a unique type of data artifacts from it.

Matthew Laurin  26:16

Gotcha. Lars, you’re writing some books, and you have Is it the one you have published so far?

Lars Daniel  26:22

Two publish. But the main one for attorneys right now is the Digital Forensics for Legal Professionals book. I have a series of books coming out soon, the one will be coming out later this year. That is the Attorneys Field Guide to digital Evidence, Mobile Phones. So that would be a whole series of the first ones on mobile phones. And the next one to come out will be just on location forensics. And these books are designed for attorneys. So it’s plain language explaining different types of acquisitions. Scott, what a cell phone protocol should like look like Scott language in it motions, orders, subpoena language for cell phone evidence, and a whole bunch of other stuff like that.

Matthew Laurin  26:59

And are these meant to be reference guys that they can like keep on their desk? And when they have a question that kind of just go through it? And Mark

Lars Daniel  27:06

Yeah, isn’t exactly a reference guide is wanting to also is like a primer or an overview. But really these books, what I wanted to do with these is you’ve got a case you got a piece of information coming from the opposing side where they’ve got an expert, I can I can sniff test what I’m hearing to see if it’s real one, and two, this has got what I need in this book to help me get the evidence I need. So how do I ask for a call detail record? So I get it exactly as I need it from Verizon, or how do I ask for that phone to be properly preserved? So I would I get it. It’s good, that type of stuff.

Matthew Laurin  27:45

That sounds like really great information and probably save them a ton of time from column experts just to get that exact same, you know line about what they need to do. Even listening to Lars Daniel, Practice Leader at Envista Forensics, Lars where can people go to learn more about in Envista Forensics and your services?

Lars Daniel  28:02

Yeah, absolutely. Envista Forensics, it’s just EnvistaForensics.com that’s Envista. And then I’m also on LinkedIn. Lars Daniel, you can find me on there. We’ll be happy to connect. Really appreciate the time today. I look forward to hear from anybody if you have any questions or need any of that stuff we talked about. Once again, I’m happy to give out different types of languages stuff for free to shoot me an email or in message on on LinkedIn.

Matthew Laurin  28:25

Thanks, Lars. Appreciate you being on the show.

Lars Daniel  28:27

Thank you.

Conclusion  28:31

Thanks for listening to the Esq.Marketing Podcast. We’ll see you again next time and be sure to click subscribe to get future episodes.

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