e14. Law Firm Marketing: John Brocas, Help Lawyer – The Content Marketing Playbook for New Law Firms

October 14, 2020
By: Matthew Laurin

John Brocas is the CEO of Help Lawyer, a legal content marketing suite created to help small law firms and lawyers compete in an overly-saturated and inflated market place. With Help Lawyer, lawyers can expand their online reach and market to a greater audience—increasing their law firm’s legal branding. 

John is also a globally-recognized spiritual coach and has blended his expertise in marketing and spiritual practice to help entrepreneurs and business owners achieve their goals with JB Spirit Media.

 
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Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:

  • Who is John Brocas?
  • Why John developed Help Lawyer.
  • John shares how Help Lawyer is different from lawyer directories.
  • The tools available on Help Lawyer that you should be using today.
  • Why you should consider video when marketing your law firm.
  • New features to expect on Help Lawyer.
  • Who should use Help Lawyer?
  • John’s advice to people who are starting their law firm.

In this episode…

Signing up for lawyer directories is an excellent way to give you some exposure and quality backlinks. But after that, what’s next? How do you build your authority and amplify your firm’s reach? 

According to John Brocas, that’s where content marketing makes all the difference. And to do content marketing right, you need all the tools, support, and reach you can find.

Listen to this episode of the Esq.Marketing Podcast with Matthew Laurin to hear from John Brocas of Help Lawyer. He talks about how content marketing is the perfect strategy for new law firms and how they can leverage it using Help Lawyer, a content marketing suite and lawyer directory.

Resources Mentioned in this episode

Sponsor for this episode…

This episode is brought to you by Esq Marketing, your firm’s strategic search marketing partner. Esq Marketing helps law firms generate more clients and cases using search marketing and helping them land on the first page on Google so that clients can find you right away. We help companies ranging from those with 10 or less members to those with over 50 in their team, essentially creating a marketing department for them to help them reach potential clients with ease.

 

Episode Transcript

Intro

You’re listening to the Esq.Marketing Podcast hosted by Matthew Laurin, President of Esq.Marketing, where he features successful solo and SMB law firms from all over the United States. Now, let’s get started with the show.

John Brocas

I listen, I’m so used to doing podcasts, I’ve literally done hundreds and hundreds of them. Not that not so much for the legal side. But for other stuff that I do. Because I I actually coach lawyers, his lawyers and but not in business, I coached them we stress in life and stuff. 

Matthew Laurin

Okay. 

John Brocas

So I do a lot for legal professionals that are needing maybe around crisis, you know, there may be big cases and stuff like that. And, you know, a lot of them are stressed on the way the tongue and so the business aspect, a small part. So for me, help lawyer was a passion because I was interested in only doing this being an immigrant that came over to America, and not having all the tools at my disposal. Yeah. And then realize in the legal industry was absolutely crazy. And, you know, years ago, when I was I was a bouncer in a nightclub in Scotland. Yeah, and my partner was a lass called Allison. And she was going through a law degree, as she used to do in the say that she was doing what degree so I would kind of sit and I’d be fascinated by all this stuff. And I would reset things weather as well. And she talked about the the cases that she had to do and all the all the different things that she had to do become a solicitor and all that different. And then I started looking into and I was fascinated. And I was pretty good at it. And she said, you should you should, you know, do a degree in law something up, probably he said no problem, you know, I can take, put my hat on anthem and deal with anything, you know, yeah. I just got it, you know. And so when I was when I was emigrating, I looked at all the immigration laws and stuff like that, and then other people that were getting divorced. And then I started looking at in laws, and then there was a business that I was helping out with marketing had some legal issues, and they couldn’t afford the lawyer. So I started looking at new things and started writing some content stuff for them. And then I bought Help Lawyer as an old Rhett domain 

Matthew Laurin

Oh, really? What was wrong with it? Was it all spam?

John Brocas

 listed by Google? I bought it for like five frickin books. I got not so long ago, it was years and years and years and years ago. And it just spoke to me and I’m like, No, I’m gonna do something and then my immigration attorney was an ex military guy, I’m ex military. And he was talking through things and he says, you know, some you know, I’m sick fed up with being I’m not I don’t know, version mentioned unbound, sick, fed up and on abhor and everything else. I’m building websites and things, just you know, and I see so I can probably do something, I could probably build a solution for that, just for the hell of it. You know, ask them did you want to be a partner remain is like, Nah, I’m too busy enough finances, you know, on, I’m gonna, I’m gonna build it. And so I did. And then just, it just became a passion. I mean, I have this king of strategy. I like playing chess.

Matthew Laurin

So what was that, like? David is for building it. But the, um, so you said you said Avo. And like, there’s a lot of directories out there, right. Find Law, just tons. Was there something missing from from those ones that helped you kind of just

John Brocas

missing? What is? It’s the personal touch that’s missing? Yeah. It’s the personal touch from someone with me that has a passion for the like, I’m like an attorney. Like an old woman. I’m like, dude, I mean, you know, where’s your content? Your Where’s your video? You know, you could be doing this. You could be putting a banner up here. We could promote this for you, we could do this. And it’s like, just so friggin lazy. And then so then I decided, right, I’m going to start attacking the SEO companies are you? Sure did, you know and I would like, you know, I would, I would basically attack them and see, come on gauges are supposed to know what the heck he’s doing. This is just ridiculous. So I push I push a lot. And I’ve got up to I think at last count was just over 700 law firms that you didn’t

Matthew Laurin

really, I didn’t realize it was that big.

John Brocas

Yeah. And it’s well respected. Now. There’s over there’s nearly 700 law firms on it.

Matthew Laurin

And there’s a and those are yet 700 paid subscribers.

John Brocas

oh no some of them are like, for instance, I have agency accounts or one of the one of the big legal marketing companies has got like a fat. I think a fat got a 40 account limit, they pay like 450 a month and they get 50 accounts, or 40 accounts, whatever it is. And they add people in thick because they’ve got an agency dashboard. Then there’s a lot of smaller, there’s a lot of smaller ones that are paying, you know, so I mean, it there’s, there’s a lot that’s paying and there’s a lot you know that many punch that I got in free because I needed lawyers on now. I just, I’ve just left them.

Matthew Laurin

It’s cool that you got so many so many subscribers, whether they’re paid or not. I mean, I remember working with you a few years ago and and you’re still kind of working on building it up. So it’s neat to see that it’s authoritative now,

John Brocas

yes, it’s definitely got some authority. And I think the biggest thing I think is like, I noticed it to me know the directory, I didn’t even like cola directory, I like to call it a content marketing legal marketing suite for it’s interesting, because so many different tools that I have in there. And then of course, I have my own personal touches and stuff. And I did I set up things like doing and autonomy interviews. So I would send out a form fill in the interview, my team will Tom and your real nice piece of content, I’ll put it on every promotion for you. I mean, doing that some of them are so easy. And that’s the problem with the legal industry. They want results, but they’re not prepared to work. And they use the same, they use the same excuse, I don’t have time. Yeah, I’m like, good, a few of you can spend even 30 minutes a week doing something, your return on investment is going to be tenfold. And then I have leads that come in all the time and they don’t answer the leads. 

Matthew Laurin

That’s cool. He said, it’s a suite of marketing tools, what I like how you differentiate it from a directory because we got directory, yeah, just like you, you create a profile, you upload some images, a video, maybe a link to your website. And that’s it. But what kind of tools are available in there?

John Brocas

So there’s video marketing on there, there’s audio that you can use, as well as written content. So for articles that get distributed, as well. And then so there’s a whole plethora of different things that we can utilize, then they’ve got the review section, and then you’ve got the they’ve got, like, you know, where they can put the testimonials up and stuff like that. And then we have services that can put separate services up, they could even have a service structure on there, where they could say, for this service, it’s going to be, you know, a $200 consultation on a $500 consultation, there’s so much it is a no, we’re doing a free, you know, it’s got what we can edition features on it as well. But the beauty of it is, is that because it’s really good quality links that I get from it as well. I have other assets that I own. So I have lawsuit information.org, which is a bit of domain authority, but 20 or 25, or something. And it’s just a blog, it’s just a news blog, and I’m like, write, write an article, get it on there, link it back to your profile and get to your website. So you’re getting a bit of a silo going, you’re getting the good structured one, and you’re getting a thought of it, and you’re getting relevancy. And then sort of so many different ways that I look at it, and then your video library, your own video library there and everything somebody puts a video and actually, you know, take some time and rates if you hundred words, no unique content when combined, or system, we’ll take it and I’ll put that into my social media management system. I’ll pull it in on an RSS feed and I start to spread it out. So your social signals are getting okay.

Matthew Laurin

Yeah, that’s that’s different. So do you see a big difference between

John Brocas

things is different and mood is avorn? Everybody else? Is that a directory that you want? And people are just looking for links? I’m looking to serve them in a better way. And really be more proactive in giving them a good service?

Matthew Laurin

Do you see a big difference in the attorneys that are using video? versus ones that aren’t I get that question a lot like if they should be doing video, what types of video they should be doing? and What kinds of things do you see 

John Brocas

those informational educational videos but here’s the biggest thing that attorneys are not recognizing the videos. It’s all about building trust and building an emotional connection with that person who might have an issue. The problem I seen a lot of a ton the videos is like have you been putting you in court in an accident? Have you been done this? If you’ve been doing this call us because we just got a $2 million claim. It’s like a commercial spin Autonomy’s at the moment nobody friggin trusts them, right? It’s all anybody see, psychologically, is it’s an autonomy, it’s gonna cost me 400 $500 a month. If you get an attorney or a lawyer to be raw and upfront and be like the common mind. And the common people ensure that say to them, as well as the professional side, the amount of authority and the amount of trust that they generate is phenomenal, because it sticks in the mind of the person is watching. I would like to see a ton news coming away from the whole just, let’s do an introduction video of all our services. And let’s you know, like test that one with one of these and he wants to pay 1020 30,000 foot and I remember it and it was Matt Bowman. Right. Yeah, like doormen because he was one of the firstborn and I’ve kept him on there forever. He’s been on it for Yeah, he’s a good guy. Yeah. And he was I actually sent him some businesses. So Matt was my first video was everything. I’m like, Man, that’s awesome. But it’s every sense the same as every other video that you know, I’d like to see my frickin Going on a barbecue. And seeing you know, And oh, by the way, this case in that case something is wrong, something that’s, that’s natural, that’s not put on not as not as a short. Because even if we look at the way the algorithms are changing, for instance, and Instagram, and all these different social media platforms, the app choosing raw content, raw real content than something that is so intelligent, that I’m going to pick up, whether it’s something that’s made up, or whether it’s, you know, so there’s a place for both. But I’d like to see more natural 

Matthew Laurin

The metrics probably show that too, when people interact with that content. So if you see something that’s obviously staged or not genuine, you’re probably not going to engage with it much, you’re not going to comment on it, like it or watch it for very long. But when you see the stuff that is raw in real life, I feel like that’s the kind of stuff everybody wants to watch. 

John Brocas

Everybody wants to do it. They want to hear your stories, they want to hear about the struggles they want to hit, they want to be able to communicate, like I communicate with my immigration lawyer. I’ll communicate with him, Matt, and I’m chatting away. Yeah, it was up the range of other beer. I was just, you know, he then I was taking my private jet. I’m like, yeah, yeah, yeah. But he’s an ex military guy. And he’s really, you know, he’s really good that you’re on, you’re saying the picture to me. And when I was at my daughter’s graduation, and this is awesome, and then you maybe put something together for them. But inherently in the legal industry, there’s a massive amount of lazy laziness versus high expectations, high expectation, but they don’t want to do anything about it.

Matthew Laurin

Yeah. So there’s a you said, there’s a dashboard on the back end of help-lawyer.com. Does everyone get access to that? Or is that only on the agency side?

John Brocas

No, everybody’s got their own profile dashboard. But the agency side, you have a sub account profile dashboard, where you can control all your clients. Okay, and then for your clients, on the other end, you can just log into each and every one of those systems.

Matthew Laurin

For an individual attorney, though, can they log in and see stats on their profile? and things like that? Or?

John Brocas

We never do? Because they’ll say, I only want your buttons. I’m not interested. I’m like, did you put some content? Yeah, it’s all about eyeballs, senior content and making a raw emotional connection. If all you Yes, I can give you a great backlink in the XML. But Mike, just wasting what you have at your disposal.

Matthew Laurin

Yeah, I wonder if there’s something you can do in terms of education, on tracking of referrals coming from help-lawyer.com or leads coming from there, and might be the next step. So they

John Brocas

can I suggest I suggested to another kind of man who was in attendance, get yourself like a search IO account. You know, just have an account shortener put your content out there and have it you know, have that link used and your content, your videos and stuff. And then you track it, where it’s coming from. But we also track in the dashboard, you’ve gotten like a profile section. And you’ll have an analytics section on the dashboard. And you can go in and see how many people went to your profile? How many people clicked on to your website? How many people clicked on your call your office? How many people sent you a message? What social media channels they jumped on and from your profile?

Matthew Laurin

It’s pretty good. That’s cool. Yeah. So what’s what’s what’s in the works right now you got something new coming out for the platform? Are you guys always working on something?

John Brocas

I have been development. So here’s the thing, I am actually going to be redeveloping the whole platform, I’ve been working on a SaaS application in the publishing and media industry for two and a half years, and has got to the point where we’re getting, we’re getting into the beta stage. And what we’re going to do after that launch, in the publishing side of things is take that, that software, and that that will be developed is moving over to Help Lawyer. So we’ll have hopefully, we’re going to have the ability where they can, they’ll be able to connect and make a video call, we can actually connect to the customer live on them, you know, the cell phones and stuff like that. We’re going to try and take it to the next level and offer them far more in the way of, you know, also bringing in we can when can we clean your and stuff like that and Poncho and all that kind of thing. So we’ve been developing that system for the last two and a half years and it’s getting to the point now where once we roll out on it, we’ll just roll it, roll it to help lawyers around we’ll change the whole the whole stage you hold that action.

Matthew Laurin

Does integration sound cool? I spoke with an attorney the other day who that was One thing she really liked about her current provider was they integrated with Clio. And like, anytime somebody called the firm, the contact information showed up and they’re in their CMS and, or their, whatever their their sales management system, and it was really handy.

John Brocas

That’s what we’re going to try and do, we’re gonna try and take it to more on media content more on video and audio, like, my new system is hopefully going to integrate with a lot more audio podcasts and stuff like that. And draw them in and start to, you know, promote them and hopefully have the count of one stop marketing platform for the autonomy where they can share direct from their profile, as well as connect their website, share the stuff in or publish their articles to their website, as well as on the hate using the directive and want to Help Lawyer on the content platform. So that’s my plans for the future. Of course, that takes that takes a lot of finances and a lot of a lot of work. And the good thing is, is that I’m doing it and based on another SAS application, I’m building for the media industry, which then will which it will already be built. So the investment will be negligible in rebuttal.

Matthew Laurin

Yeah, that sounds cool. Um, so is that you think that’s really gonna put some juice behind the marketing aspect of it? 

John Brocas

It’s going to be it’s going to be totally unique to the likes of Avo and everything else is taught. I’m trying we really take it thinking outside of the box, you know? Yeah. So that it really, here’s the thing, I want it to benefit small and law firms who are on both, you know, that I’m a big pond for sharks, and got nowhere else to go. But that point is there’s a lot of there’s a lot of bad lawyers, there was a lot of good lawyers, or there was a lot of good lawyers that don’t know nothing about marketing don’t know nothing about content, wet behind the ears, and they just can’t compete with a big one with a big agency. And I’ve moved away from the whole idea of, you know, pay per click or even an agreement. Nothing because the lawyers these wires cannot afford.

Matthew Laurin

It’s expensive. Yeah. Yeah, if you’re a brand new pa attorney, and you’re trying to bid on terms, even in a moderate sized, geographic location, I mean, it’s like 70 130 $180, a click for I look at the amount of click fraud. Yeah, there’s a to

John Brocas

quote. And I mean, as much as Google’s trying to do a battle, it’s a continual battle. I mean, I do content marketing and the pest control industry. So I don’t do marketing in the legal industry. So it’s but I have Pest Control clients that I run an agency for a media marketing agency, and I have a problem with with click fraud and all that kind of stuff, you know, so I try to streamline as much as possible through just complete content and media. How do you win the age vac industry? So for instance, in the edge vac industry last year, one of my clients in Florida, I generated like 274, real hot leads for a bank, and a month, nice. You know, that’s 3000 $4,000 worth of system. And maybe, you know, that’s what I’m wanting for them.

Matthew Laurin

Yeah, I’m gonna click on the click fraud. How do you know Google Miss tries to refund invalid click activity or whatever, but I don’t think they do. Not big portion of it. I mean, how do you how do you avoid that, as I

John Brocas

tried to get as punchy as possible through phone conversion,

Matthew Laurin

foreign wigs and photos version, okay, instead of away from the tech stance, instead of you’re saying instead of like form fills instead of form fills on a website?

John Brocas

Yeah, yeah. Because there’s so much even for the form files. And the other thing that I’ll do is pre qualifying them to go through and fill in a form to make an appointment, that kind of thing. You know, okay, um, but I think it’s what’s in the legal industry, because the click fraud is so high I see. And this is where they see that the lawyers, the legal industry are not wholly tongue into more than media, I don’t see them, you know, doing as much in video as they should be doing.

Matthew Laurin

You know. It’s really the bigger firms that I see doing video doing commercials, billboards, and more so because they have the funds and they’re at that level where they can have weight in the market as opposed to, you know, having to track every dollar to make sure it’s returning. Return on Investment, but yeah, I mean, I think video is important. I think there’s a place for PPC

John Brocas

it’s getting less

Unknown Speaker

Yeah, a

John Brocas

lot of people have ception. You know, the other thing for I think lawyers need to think about as good quality content. I asked him get not answering question. It’d be answered. So will we get that to get them, you know, FAQ snippets and things like that and, and utilize that. And then what I don’t see that doesn’t seem to happen, you know, I can take, I can take a piece of content, see on help lawyer and write a really good piece of content on there maybe 2000 words or so I can develop maybe 30 pieces of unique content just from that one article. And that kind of strategy, I don’t see why I was using much I mean, they could ton they could read that article themselves into a podcast, or an audio file, bam, we’ve got an audio. And at the end of the day, we’ve also got the voice outs, I think voice apps is huge. And not a lot of people are catching on it. Not a lot. So you can utilize your content, even in the voice app. And then you know, you have you can make videos that you can short snippet, snackable videos, you know, micro content that leads them to a bigger the website or the landing page or something like that, you know, I don’t see a one on one content, I see even some of the other agencies that are there. In utilizing my system doesn’t as I said before, there’s an inherent laziness. And you’ll put a piece of content or an asset, and it’s just to get the link. And sort of sad, because I think I said, That’s quite a good piece of content. I could turn that into a video, I could turn it on audio, I can really get some good exposure for that little lot from but they don’t do it.

Matthew Laurin

Yeah, there’s a lot to be said for that. I mean, excellence is much harder to achieve and mediocrity. So your your core audience, smaller law firms,

John Brocas

rather than I don’t think for help lawyer, yeah, we’ve got a couple of big players that utilizes but I don’t have the passion for the big players, I have the passion for the small lawyers, the ones that are trying to make the mark trying to make the the one. I don’t, they don’t mark in the industry, if you’re way down the chain, I once knew a lawyer couldn’t afford to come on the platform. And it’s not it’s not expensive. But he said he couldn’t even afford to eat. He wasn’t he wasn’t Amman, the money was he couldn’t even afford to buy some shopping. Oh, that’s rough. And you know, and he had a partner and she couldn’t live together China and build up the practice, and couldn’t even pay the rent really, and get short and stuff like that. So I mean, I just give them a freebie.

Matthew Laurin

Yeah, I spoke. I spoke to one of our clients the other day, and one of my questions for him on the podcast was, you know, what was one piece of advice for new attorneys and more or less it was, you know, get ready to work hard. And he told me this story about when he started and, you know, he was working crazy hours, you know, 1216 hour days not making any money sleeping in the building that he had his office in. So yeah, I mean, you don’t really realize that way behind the prestige. And you know, that just the air that the legal industry has to outsiders, you don’t really realize that they’re starting a business like any other entrepreneur, a lot of them are broke, you know,

John Brocas

any. we all struggle with our businesses in the beginning and things that especially No, we want to see post Cobo because we’re not post cool, but we’re still in it. It’s harder and harder for entrepreneurs to actually break out and Nicola are one of the coaching that I’m doing. I pray Molly, my mining thing is coaching people, coaching entrepreneurs and coaching executives and leaders and lawyers and things. And what I see is, if the have a different mindset, and they take the tackle things in a different way, they can thrive and not survive. But the unfortunate thing is that you then have this whole it’s like mass consciousness about how everything is harmed. And even for a small law firm. It’s really hard to get by and all these stories, but really all it needs a change of mindset, a change in mindset and and hard work because nothing comes easy. Listen, I can’t remember who was at fault or what was the biggest bill that I have. But when everybody was leaving the footnote, the author who’s there I’m sorry, I’m not attacking your book and let’s face it, there is such a thing as a 401k it just doesn’t happen. You actually get your hands dirty and do the work.

Matthew Laurin

Yeah, yeah, for sure. So So what would be your answer to that question? What’s one thing that a new attorney or somebody starting their firm out would it What’s the first thing you should be focused on?

John Brocas

Think emotional connection first and content Second. Okay. The reason being is because Everybody has got this whole bio Dyson dealer, buy my product by myself is buy this, I can get you this, I can get you this money this fee, you know, but think about really emotionally connect. And because it’s a long term business, not a short term cash, yes, you do need some short term jobs and you can take that, you know, can support a lot of families. But I would see is whatever niche you’re in, let’s say it’s immigration, or even Divorce Law, something like that, is look at the biggest problems and not not the biggest questions that ask him. But look at the emotional problems that people are having, and become empathetic with those problems, and then offer them solutions to those problems. Nine times out of 10 when you make that emotional connection, and you make that that, that build that trust with them, you’re going to develop a long term relationship that’s going to it’s going to develop in business, there’s no there’s no way about it. business is all about relationships, no matter what business you’re in, whether you sell carpets on the side of the road, or you sell oranges in Florida, on the side of the road, you know, cops, etc. You know, it’s all about relationships, people remember, kindness, they remember you being empathetic and listening. So if you can listen to problems, and I identify the issues in your niche, and start to generate the content around seven issues, do not generate the content to sell doesn’t work, generate the content and form and educate and be empathetic and make a connection.

Matthew Laurin

That’s great advice. We’ve been listening to John Brocas Founder of help-lawyer.com John, where can people go to learn more about help-lawyer.com?

John Brocas

Let’s just go to help work help-lawyer.com. If you need to ask any questions, you can just go to the little chat button. I have to see I thought we were chatting and this was awesome. We’d like to record. Yeah. We’ll just go to help one. If you’ve got any questions, then jump in. If you really need, you know, advices for maybe when I bought you as a lawyer basis, not free. But if you come to me that I’m going to give you advice on how to do things. So Help Lawyer is a great platform for new lawyers starting small lawyers, small businesses, and there’s a lot of features that you can use. The any feature on any website is great. It’s only the power behind that makes a difference. And that’s where I think it’s a little box for my for my members.

Matthew Laurin

Well said Well said. Thanks, John, I appreciate you for taking the time today.

John Brocas

No problem, brother was good.

Conclusion

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